Face The Nation.05.24.09

" Today on face the nation an exclusive interview with Colin Powell on Guantanamo. Torture and the soul of the Republican Party. Is President Obama putting the nation's security at risk. Former Vice President Cheney says again -- Republican. This is no time to moderate their views and he told us that when it came to republicans' he'd taken what little ball over jumbled pile. Today Colin Powell thought. Then we'll talk with a Harvard psychiatrist Alvin was song as we continue our CBS news series on children of the recession. I'll have a final word on this Memorial Day weekend about that soldier in the pre -- But first Colin Powell. Faith and."

" Face the nation. We've CBS news chief Washington correspondent. Bob Schieffer. I know from CBS news in Washington Bob Schieffer."

" Hey good morning again on this Memorial Day weekend former secretary of state and former chairman of the joint chiefs Colin Powell is with us in the studio this morning thank you general it's been quite a two week did you know. He was on this broadcast that your -- Boston colleague Dick Cheney accused this administration of putting the nation's security at risk keep finalize an argument in the speech last week. Said he had no regrets about the terrorist. The methods of dealing with terrorists that the administration took. He criticized the closing of Guantanamo on want to ask you about all of that but I want to start. Where he indeed he has interviewed here and face the nation when he said some things about you here's what he said. Rush Limbaugh said the other day that did. Party probably better off if Colin Powell left and just -- a Democrat and Colin Powell said Republicans should there be better off if they didn't have Rush Limbaugh speaking for. Where do you come."

" move ahead choose. It's in terms of being a Republican anger over the Rush Limbaugh think I think. My take on it was cold wondered already left the party I didn't know it was still a Republican. You know so you do you think that he is -- a pop. -- know just noted he endorsed. Democratic candidate for president this time Barack Obama. I assume that that some indication that this loyalty and his interest in and you said you'd -- Rush Limbaugh for Colin I would. Well there you have it general so I guess the first question or your Republican."

" answer that this way if I -- Bob rush will not get his wish. And mr. Cheney was misinformed. And still Republicans. And I'd like to point out that in the course of my fifty years of voting for president. I have voted for the person I thought was best qualified at that time to lead the nation. Last year I thought it was president now Barack Obama for the previous twenty years I voted solidly for Republican candidates voted for Ronald Reagan twice. George Bush 41 twice George Bush 43 twice I spent eight years and bush administration's. I served Ronald Reagan for two years I spoke with the 1996. Convention and I spoke at the 2000 convention. What the concern about me is that -- to moderate I have always felt. That the Republican Party should be more inclusive than it generally has been over the years. And I believe we need strong Republican Party that is not just anchored in the basement has built on the base. To include more individuals and we don't do that if we don't reach out more. The party is gonna be sitting on a very very narrow base and can only do two things with a base. You can sit on that watched the world go by where you can build on the base and I believe we should build on the base because the nation the age two parties. Two parties debating each other. But -- we have to do is debate. And define who we are and what we are and not just listen to get cuts that come down from the right wing of the party. What what what do you think the former vice president. Said what he said well I assume that was his point of view but he was misled people and I love to party. You know neither he nor Rush Limbaugh are members of the a membership committee of the Republican Party. I get to make my decision on that and so. I will continue to work on ways and I think it's helpful to the country and helpful to the party. We're -- reasons for this in -- in the military we have something called after action reviews after a battle or after training exercise you bring all the leaders and you say. What's going right what's going wrong what do we do right or wrong and how we move forward. It's a no holds bar candid discussion of where we are that's what the Republican Party needs now. When you look at the results of the election last year lost the presidency. -- a ten million votes lost that that campaign by ten million votes. We saw both houses of congress which -- the Democrats we saw whole sections of the country moved to the democratic column. Virginia in my state democratic Florida. Nevada other places. We looked at all of the tomorrow demographics of the Gallup poll had series. Indicators and in almost every demographic indicator. Republican Party is losing. North south east west. Men and women whites blacks Hispanics. And I think the Republican Party has to take a hard look at itself and decide what kind of party or -- While we simply moving further to the right and by so doing opening up. The right of center and the center to be taken over by independents. And be taken over it Democrats. You look at the statistic in Pennsylvania that Arlen Specter has cited 200000. Republicans in Pennsylvania. Switch their allegiance to become Democrats. In the election of 2008. That kind of and leakage cannot continue if Republican Party is simply a major roll my wife for her country and if you look at the other statistic that is around these days that the number of people are gonna find themselves Republicans. Has dropped significantly into the low twenties and among those low twenties -- not all conservatives. A lot of them are fairly moderate or right of center Republicans who are concerned about the right way. And or not that vocal about it because if you are vocal you're gonna get your voice mail filled up and getting lots of emails like kind of."

" What about the Rush Limbaugh a lot of people who are Republicans say hey people are taking him to seriously he is just an entertainer but. Yeah he's been on your case for quite awhile when you announced you were voting for Barack Obama he said the only reason he's doing -- is because Barack Obama is black. What's he calling you racist."

" I don't know what he was do moment that and I don't want I don't want to exchange insults with him. But I thought it was unfortunate I laid out a very specific set of reasons as to why I was voting for Barack Obama. Mr. -- saw fit to dismiss all of those reasons and put it into a racial context. That the only reason I did it that was black and I never voted for Democrat before well yes -- hat. Voted for John Kennedy and Vodafone Lyndon Johnson I voted for Jimmy Carter. And I've always try to vote for the best man he put in the racial context I thought that that was that was very unfortunate. What about the 69 million people who voted for Barack Obama that they older and on the basis right is why there's any sort of comment on knows the missile and I was entitled to his opinion. And I don't say he shouldn't have an opinion make sure our country is good debate these things. But he shouldn't have a veto over what someone thinks and he's an entertainer he is a radio a radio figure and he is a significant one. But he's more than that when the chairman of the RNC Michael Steele. Issues to my list of criticisms concerning mr. Linda. And a 24 hours later the chairman of the RNC has to lay prostrate on the floor apologizing for. And went to congressman. Offer the marvelous criticism -- when they too within 24 hours at such pressure brought to bear on them. That they have to change their view and apologized for criticizing him. Well if he's out there he should be subject to criticism -- subject criticism. Let's debate the future of the party and let's let all segments of the party connect you know my model for the Republican Party is a great man we just lost. Man my name Jack Kemp. Jack was as conservative as anybody we all know -- And Jack also was a man who believe in inclusiveness reaching out to minorities reaching out to the -- sharing the wealth. Which became a bad term last fall. But sharing the wealth of the country not only with the rich. But with those who are. Least advantage in our society is that kind of Jack Kemp republicanism I like and I would like to see the party move more Mac hamburger."

" Let's talk a little bit about Guantanamo vice president came out. Very hard against the Obama administration and his policies he up. He said he would be a mistake to close Guantanamo. Others who said it would actually pose a danger to this country if these people are brought back do you think Guantanamo should be close."

" Yes I felt like Thomas should be closed for the past six years -- lobbied and and presented the reasons to President Bush and mr. Cheney is not only disagreement. President Obama's policy he's disagreeing with President Bush's policy. President Bush stated repeatedly. Two international audiences into the country that he wanted to close Guantanamo. The problem we had was he couldn't get all the pieces together. Secretary Rice secretary of state rice and secretary of defense gates had come forward with plans. But the plans ran into difficulties with the department of justice and others so it is a complex problem and President Bush wasn't able to. Close Guantanamo on his watch in president. Obama came and -- with close Guantanamo. And he has run into some of those same sorts of problems. I think we need to kind of take the heat out of this issue I think President Obama didn't handle it very well. By going up to the congress and asking for eighty million dollars without a plan. And by frankly giving enough time to opponents of it. To Marshal their forces as to why we shouldn't do this what Guantanamo has caused us a great deal of trouble throughout the world. And mr. Cheney the other -- said well we're doing it to satisfy your European and electrical something like that no. We're doing it to reassure Europeans. Muslims Arabs all the people around the world. That we are nation law it is so much Guantanamo with the people at one time. How -- we deal with them we can't keep them locked up forever. This business about making the country less safe by bringing these people to our prison system we've got two million people in jail in America. The highest incarceration rate in the world. And they all had lawyers they all had access to -- of habeas corpus and they're all in jail and I don't know Bob if you're seeing some of these prison reality shows on television. Where they show you what it was super lockup is. I'm not terribly worried about one of these guys going to the super locked up and being kept so so you think taking the -- here he kept safely without -- yes and I think that should have been done. Immediately and not start looking for eighty million dollars to into the -- prisons. Look we're talking about roughly 240. The hard core problem. Is that there are some of them that you really do not have cold evidence on that you could put before an article three court. That's the problem that President Bush trouble with this problem that President Obama is struggling -- we may have to find. New legislation that congress assist us with this but let's get it into our system of laws was an executive and legislative. And a judicial branch all work."

" It together have you talked to President Obama about this yes you hat. And what -- view my doctor my preferred the views I've just expressed view president dominance -- to me. He has heard from you on this I had been do you think I did he public can get the congress to go where they've on this I'm told -- Michael Michael Lindsay Graham and and maybe even John McCain. Who might be willing to helping with -- but only EP presented he."

" Yeah I think that's the message that came out of congress. And we can't give you eighty million dollars there's a lot of internal home resistance to bring these people in this country. So you come forward with a plan. That makes some sense and you tell us -- going to resolve all these cases. And do it in the way that we can support and then maybe we can move forward so I think it was premature to ask for the money. It was premature to say we're gonna give it a year to work out but then immediately asked for the money for something. John McCain has been strong support from the very beginning closing Guantanamo. But in recent days he's been saying you know I have moved off that point but you gotta give us a plan this has become very very political. And so I think. After we've had he's doing speeches and on the controversy of recent days things will settle down and the president can go off and spent some time with the staff. Thinking it through all the way coming up with a plan just as he said he would do in the speech and 11 point have to make. Is it really comes. Some things that have been written up lately that is in the first year after nine elevenths we do everything we could. To stop. The possibility. Of another nine elevenths. We put in place the Patriot Act we used enhanced interrogation techniques. I shut down for the most part the visa system until we could fix it. But after about a year and a half when it looked like things were relatively secure and were doing a better job. Then. We started to relax the visa system once we fixed it because we can't keep. Moving in that direction with putting people in jail forever without resolving their cases or not letting people come to our country. So it was natural to start shifting back to -- more normal ways of doing business in dealing with the rest of the world. After we had achieved -- level of security we are more secure. I mean -- on my Republican friends sort of get mad when I say we need government. People want a factor responsible government. Republicans -- not cut much government even though they talk about one of the government and cutting government we've created Department of Homeland Security needed. We created the transportation security agency the guards are our terminals -- people go in and out needed. We creative Director of National Intelligence needed. The American people want to see -- FEMA that takes care of us and hurricanes and tornadoes the American people want to see federal regulators making sure. We never get the kind of financial problem we go out and -- pure work now we had. So there is a need for government. With the American people want not just slogans limited government they want effective government government that works and just as much as we need but if we needed let's."

" All right let me ask you this the former vice president said he had no regrets about the methods that were used including waterboarding he actually authorize it. He says they may have saved thousands of lives are warning issued two questions. Do you agree with that that -- these techniques were effective in number two when indeed you know what. This business to."

" When when we started to examine these. Techniques. I was in some meetings where they were discussed. I was not privy to the memos are being written over the legal opinions that were being written. I think it was unfortunate that we had a system. That kept that in a very compartment that matter and so I was aware that these enhanced interrogation techniques were being considered. And they would judged not to be torture at the time and when you were facing the possibility of 9/11. You had to give some. Some flexibility in the CIA. But it was under the Bush Administration that they stopped using these techniques back in nineteen in 2003. So obviously. The CIA did not feel that we had anybody else in our custody. That would need to have these these techniques used and you don't have values I have no idea. I hear that they were here that they want. You see people from the FBI who come out say we got all that information before any of that was done I cannot answer questions and and the problem is I don't know what I don't know."

" Let me just ask you this Jan Crawford Greenburg of ABC news reported last year. That that top people in the administration view that secretary of state the secretary of defense and National Security Adviser what actually brought in to meetings in the White House. Where these things were outlined. But you're saying you don't know. -- at those meetings you're saying that."

" Nothing way -- they were outlined we were aware that these techniques were being discussed. And we are aware that legal opinion from being governments say. They met the standard of the law. But over time now that we look at it you know it's it's easy now and the cold light of day to look back and say you should have done anything. But as mr. Cheney has said very very often as as President Bush and all of us if we had another attack like 9/11. Say on 9/11 a year later nobody would have forgiven us for not doing everything we could. And the CIA thought we needed those kinds of techniques but now we see that these are not appropriate. And I -- the guy on television being -- yesterday this. Correspondent this television commentator and in six seconds -- take photos just like swimming. Six seconds he was screaming. They had to be you know released from this kind of waterboarding. And remember waterboarding comes out of our survival rate invasions skate techniques. And those were intended to be tortured to show our guys what they should be subjected to. We have just a second left Memorial Day weekend I know this is a meaningful weekend for you this is. -- time when we reflect on. The privilege we have had -- citizens to have had other citizens willing to put their lives on the line. And so let's remember all those who serve their nation remember their families remember those who were injured and are still with us. And the -- and other wonderful Memorial Day concert -- on the west. Lawn of the capitol line will be there with a number of other people to celebrate. The sacrifice of our young men and -- especially those who are serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. Today they are also a great wish --"

" Thank you very much thank probing -- backed government. Amanda each story. Tyler at age eight Marissa. H four and a half we could tell you just how many child abductions last year led to an amber alerts Cheney -- each fourteenth. -- But this isn't about -- statistics it's about saving kids -- and -- 86 months please go to wireless amber alerts dot -- sign -- to get free AMBER -- text messages on your cellphone when an AMBER Alert is issued in the areas you've chosen you receive a free text message if -- the vehicle the suspect the child described in the -- 911. Sign up today for free -- wireless amber alerts dot org you can imagine with the family of -- abducted child is feeling Alexander. Each set. If you actually do it helps save that child. Just imagine what would feel like wireless amber alerts dot org a child is calling for help this message brought to you by the wireless foundation the US Department of Justice the national center for missing and exploited children and the had canceled."

" This morning we continue an association -- our partner USA today special coverage of children of the recession -- from Portland Maine this morning. Doctor Alvin who song of the Harvard medical school and I'm gonna just start. Doctor -- some with the general question. Hands this recession had an impact on children."

" It's certainly has because it's had an impact on families unemployment the loss of jobs of foreclosures. This has strained. Families and estranged children children need to feel safe secure and protected. And the economic downturn makes them feel the opposite and they can see it in their own families all in the families of their friends they go to school I hear about people losing. Losing their jobs they know that things have had to be cut back in their own. Home so I think they're doing a lot of attention. The other problem. That has occurred is that with the downturn. There's been an increase in child abuse and neglect and domestic violence which has you know severely impact children. Not just to me and now. But also in the future. Is quite damaging. -- them so children feel it because they're feeling. This sense of loss just like the parents and multiple losses the loss of jobs and homelessness. The loss of of foods many families can't find a decent food. They have to go to food to food pantries. And and this may even be contributing."

" I mean how poor health of children. Let me ask you -- how would you compare this and what's going on now to the impact of the the Great Depression."

" Well. I don't remember well the Great Depression now remember as well as some of the other people would actually I was alive during part of the Great Depression. Nine and -- openings to all of New York where my family was not well to do of course I remember there was a lot of scarcity where we had a large family. Eight children and frequently summon the children yet meet in the together other types of food because food was too expensive for my family too. Before we lived in a walk up tenement apartment with a bathtub. Indication. With -- eight children during that upon but we just took that as."

" Well that's the way the world is -- insists they would work for. But wouldn't have very much I think today's children have been used to much who want. Affluence but remember a lot of children. Even before the recession lived in poverty many millions of children over twelve million children. So bed getting. Heavier dose. Of the poverty and this -- cities that they had war already experiences. And experiencing particularly minorities. And blacks Latinos and someone who was suffering disproportionately. I think during this recession."

" Let me ask you this said doctor. What should parents be telling their children -- the neat thing about this what advice do you have for parents that this could."

" Don't want my advice to parents is. First to a most of the children have heard something they know what's going on find out what they know what sort of they know better recession. Maybe they know about people losing their jobs who would they know and what their concerns on so that they can be addressed and the idea would be. To -- to reassure them. And for parents to be as optimistic as possible. So that the children don't experience. So much anxiety. And fear about the future so this is a time for both families to come together it's a time for more like quality time between children. And parents and even getting the children involved. And participate. Many schools have programs where children. Get to the homeless they give to food pantries I think that's very good all right it's time we can learn new values of sharing and coming together."

" All right thank you so much I'm sorry we're actually out of time but thank you so much doctor back with a final word judgment."

" In November 2004. Nathan was sentenced to six years for committing a gun crime he was only nineteen."

" I make a just a story we've been there vidor three years object what do you miss most all. Under the deal with smoke or little better program where trees though it is being free are hasn't been. Difficult almost little sort of groups it's been priority and oh lead. What about two -- you ever give them live -- certainly don't really -- over billions and -- Montrae. Please note that it would they you blame me belief in order lifting they're it's. It's really not Americans do and their fault in my hands instead. -- can't really have -- anyway. Could tell your family one thing well please thank you tell. --"

" When you committed gun crime your family serve the sentence with you. Gun crimes huge home protein that project safe neighborhoods and the council some teens have trouble just making it to graduation do."

" From this friend Mary-Kate origins and not worry you know -- enemy -- would in effect through you know making new page that -- news. I would have been -- and un accused it I dropped husky tone phone to -- phone to a you know it goes in a group final when I was -- it is I would just keep sharp pain just that to -- Cuban uprising and won't give Danny the boost he needs to graduate go to -- dot -- and cinema messaging her own words brought to you by the US army in the council told."

" Look bad eating well and play. You go together like best friends you better believe we the food pyramid of bare necessities of living -- he gives you have. Just the right amount of grains vegetables and fruits and milk and meat can be screened."

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" So you probably saw the picture that I saw the other day it was hard demands because it's been on the front pages of most of our newspapers if you didn't see it here it is. When the Taliban opened fire on his base camp an American soldier name's Zack -- oil jumped out of bed in the -- flip flops and is Pete boxer shorts through on his helmet. Rammed his rifle and started firing back. I have to say it made me smile but when I checked it out it brought the war in Afghanistan home to me in a very personal way. It turns out the exact -- boy gauge just nineteen years old he grew up in my hometown. Fort Worth, Texas and he graduated from Keller high school where many years before he got there my sister was the principal. On this Memorial Day weekend the government is fastest to remind everyone who observed a moment of silence at 3 PM tomorrow. For those who have fallen in America's wars we do so gladly. But seeing exactly Boyd will also make me think of all the nineteen year old kids and there are a lot of them. -- were in some god awful places around the world this weekend doing what their country is asked them to do. I wish there were time to say every one of their names on national television there is. But I hope they and their -- know that when all products. That's it for us we'll see you next."

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" That's not -- horrible public service announcement party by the US department of health and human services and it -- businessmen face the nation with CBS news chief Washington correspondent. Bob Schieffer. Today's guest work Colin Powell former secretary of state. And doctor Alvin who saw a professor of psychiatry at the judge baker children's center and Harvard Medical School. -- executive producer of face the nation is Karen -- the senior producers to -- slaughtered and the producer is Arlene in large -- This broadcast was directed by -- Steve -- Face the nation originated from Washington DC. This is this CBS radio network."