Face The Nation: Dick Cheney

" Tonight on face the nation former Vice President Dick Cheney and he's talking. His old boss George Bush has let down and is keeping quiet about Dick Cheney is -- He's speaking out and we'll get his take today on the future of the Republican Party. The controversial interrogation techniques Iraq Pakistan. And the new administration. Of President Obama. Then I'll have a final word on a quiet kind of stuff. But first Dick -- It -- tonight."

" Face the nation of we've CBS news chief Washington correspondent Bob Schieffer. Demo from CBS news in Washington Bob Schieffer."

" And good morning again they've former vice president is in the studio -- us this morning as he has been many times over the years customer vice president. Thank you for being here you're obviously here because we invited you here and we appreciate that but I want to ask you something. President Bush has done what to people normally do when they leave the Oval Office he has remained mom he said very little again one point he said -- That he thought President Obama deserved his silence but you have taken a very different tact and I must say I'm very on usual -- for somebody just leaving the vice president's office. You've been speaking out not just frequently but often very pointedly at one point you said for example. The Obama administration has made this country less safe that's a very serious charge. -- hate you take it."

" Well Bob first of all could be back on the show -- nice to know that and you're still love them. Are invited out in public sometimes it. The the reason I've been speaking and and in effect would have been -- as a responding to press -- measures. He is because I think the issues that are at stake here are some important. And in effect what we've seen happen now with respect to the Obama administration that came to power. Is they have moved to. Takedown. A lot of those policies we put in place that kept the nation safer nearly eight years from the -- one terrorist attack like 9/11. Meant dealing with prisoner interrogation for example. Aura of the terrorist surveillance program. They campaigned against these policies across the country and then they came in now and they have tried. Very hard to undertake actions that I just fundamentally disagree."

" What do you mean do you should we take that literally you say that the administration has made this country more vulnerable to attacks here in the home."

" That's my belief based upon the fact. That we put in place those policies after 9/11. On on the morning of 912 a few well. There was a great deal we didn't know about al-Qaeda. There was. Need do embark upon a new strategy perspective -- this is -- strategic threat to the United States there's a possibility of al-Qaeda terrorist in the midst of one of our own cities in the nuclear weapon or biological agent. It was a time of of great concern and we put in place some very good policies and who worked for eight years. Now we have an administration that's come to power that's that's been critical. Of the programs. But not only that there's been talk about prosecuting lawyers and the Justice Department. Who gave us the opinions that we operated in accordance with the -- referring them to the bar association for disbarment or sanctions of some kind. Or possibly cooperating with the foreign governments that are -- in trying to prosecute American officials Hussein's -- same officials who were responsible. For defending this nation for the last eight years. Now -- that whole. Complex of things is when I find deeply disturbing. And I think. To the extent that those policies were responsible for saving lives. That the administration is now trying to cancel those policy is support and terminate them. Then I think. It's fair to argue and I do argued that that means. In the future we're not going to have the same safeguards we've had for my bully voters."

" Why does that make the country less safe. Familiar talking about you say you don't think that we ought to be going back in and questioned those people looking in to some of these things. Are not take your point on that but how is that making the country. Let's say how does that make the country more vulnerable to an attacked in the future."

" Well at the heart of what we did with the terrorist surveillance program on the enhanced interrogation techniques for al-Qaeda terrorist and so forth. This collect information -- about intelligence it was about finding out what al-Qaeda was going to do with their capabilities and plans were. It was discovering all those things we needed in order to be able to go defeat al-Qaeda. And in effect what's happening here when you get rid of enhanced interrogation techniques for example war. Or -- of the terrorist surveillance program you reduce the intelligence flow to the intelligence community upon which we base those policies that were so successful. So I think before they do that sort of thing it's important sit down and find out. What are we learn would've wanted to work one of the things that I did six weeks ago I made a request. That two memos that I personally know I've written by the CIA that lay out the successes of those policies. And point out in a considerable detail. All of we were all we were able to achieve by virtue of those policies that those -- be released be made public. Administration's released legal opinions out of the office of legal counsel. They don't have any qualms at all about putting things out that can be used. To be critical of the Bush Administration policies but when you've got memos out there that show precisely how much was achieved. And -- lives were saved as a result of these policy. They won't release."

" To a Leslie let me just ask you about that because some people in the administration I believe the attorney general says he does not know of such memo was. Other people in the administration say is a matter of fact what we found out using these methods and in the mean let's call things what they are. Waterboarding was one of the techniques that were used. That they -- didn't get all that much from that you say they do it."

" I say they did for former directors of the central intelligence agencies say they did bipartisan basis. Release the memos and we -- look and see for yourself what was produced the -- do exist I've seen them had to move my files at one time. Now everything's part of the national archives. I'm sure the agency as copies of those materials and there's a formal way you go through what your former official. A formal way go through requesting the classification of something and I started that process as -- say six weeks ago. I haven't heard anything from it yet I it has not today hadn't. Responded you this year. That's right that's been up till now I've got letter of notification say they've started the process but I haven't seen anything. By way of a result from this request for the classification and and before going to have this debate. It ought to be a complete debate and those memos ought to be out there for people can look at and journalists like yourself. To evaluate in terms of what we're able to accomplish and."

" What mr. vice president let me ask you this I mean I'm not asking you to violate any rules of classification but is there anything you can tell us specifically. That those memos would would tell us I mean some information we gleaned some some fact that we got that we would -- gotten otherwise."

" That's what's in those memos that talk specifically about different. Attack planning that was underway and now was stopped talks about how well I'm the the volume of intelligence reports that were produced from -- did you talk about planning for attacks or attacks that were actually stop. Well -- I am I need to be careful here -- because it's got class. That the way to answer this is give us the memos. Put about they're releasing to the press let everybody take a look at it and see what it shows is that overwhelmingly. The process we had in place produced from certain key individuals such as college Sheikh Mohammed and Abu zubaydah. Two of the three were waterboarding and then college -- and the man who killed 3000 Americans on 9/11. Blew up the World Trade Center attacked the Pentagon tried to blow up the white house of the capitol building. An evil evil -- that's been on our custody since March of 03. He did not cooperate fully in terms of interrogations until after waterboarding. Once we went through that process he produced -- quarter earnings have been valuable information about al-Qaeda."

" What do you say to those of mr. vice president who say that when we employee these kind of tactics which are after all the tactics that the other side uses. That when we adopt their methods that were weakening security not in -- security. But cause it's sort of makes a mockery of what we we tell the rest of the world."

" Well then you'd have to say that. In effect to. We're prepared to sacrifice American lives rather than run an intelligent interrogation program that would provide us the information we need to protect America. The fact of the matter is these techniques that we're talking about. Are used on our own people. We've been Hampshire program that in effect trains are people -- perspective captured an invasion and so forth and escape. A lot of them go through the same same exact procedure. DU eight now is what you're saying here is that we should do anything. If we can get information -- but remember what happened here. We had. Captured these people we had pursued. Interrogation more normal way. We decided that we needed some enhanced techniques so we went to the Justice Department. And the controversy has arisen over the opinions written by the Justice Department reason we went to the Justice Department was -- because we felt we're gonna take some kind of free hand. Assault on these people that we -- in the torture business we work and specifically what we got from the office of legal counsel or. Legal memos that laid out what's appropriate what's not appropriate in light of our international commitments. If we had been about torture we wouldn't have wasted our time going to the Justice Department."

" How much did President Bush know specifically. About the methods that were being used. We know they view. And -- set that you approve this part somewhere down the line did President Bush know everything you know."

" I certainly. -- I have every reason to believe he knew. He knew a great deal about Britain PP basically authorized and I mean this was the presidential level decision and the decision went to the -- he signed off on."

" Did you use said. You said just a moment ago if you were talking about this that. You said that we have to realize what was it state and we have to realize the circumstances. Do you have any regrets whatsoever. About any of the methods that were taken any any of the things that were used back in those days because. It is there's no question the country it was a different time the country's mood was different we had just been something that happened here that it never happened before. In retrospect. You you've years of pastor now out of office do you think we should have done some things differently him or do you have any regrets about any."

" No regrets I think it was absolutely the right thing to do I'm convinced absolutely convinced. That we save thousands perhaps hundreds of thousands of lives. In the aftermath. Aftermath of 9/11 when it all these questions about who al-Qaeda was where they were operating and so forth we didn't know nearly as much as we know today. We were faced with a very real possibility were reporting set al-Qaeda is trying to acquire nuclear capabilities. We had the eight -- network out there black market operator selling nuclear weapons technology to Libya. North Korea and Iran we had the anthrax attack within a matter of weeks after nine elevenths. We had. You kind of situation that. Meant that we were absolutely convinced the country was condensed. That there was very high likelihood of a follow on attack a mass casualty attack against the United States. No one and would have that anything that your gonna go any gators and I have another attack. And we know when in fact that they did try other -- and we were able to stop. Now that if you look at it from the perspective of -- senior government officials somebody like myself who stood up and took the oath of office in January 20 of 01 and a raise their right and instead -- going to protect and defend the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. This was exactly. Exactly what was needed to do -- I think if you look at this intelligence program that. When things acquired or twenty or thirty years from now -- be able to look back on this and say this is one of the great success stories of American intelligence. I think in fact what the men and women in the intelligence community and the lawyers in the Justice Department. That senior officials who approved this program did exactly the right thing I think. The charge that somehow there was something wrong done here or that this was torture in violation of US. Statutes is just absolute."

" With fools you you're speaking out you say you you obviously. I feel passionately about this. How far are you willing to take this approach are you willing to go back to the congress and talk to people in congress about this there -- all kind of people talking about various kinds of investigations. Would you go back and talk to the congress."

" And certainly have made me do animated very clear that I feel very strongly that what we did here was exactly the right thing to do and then -- if I don't speak out. Then where we find ourselves -- then then the critics have free run and there isn't anybody there on the other side to it did tell the truth."

" you support and when senator Leahy the chairman of the Judiciary Committee was on this broadcast recently and I Sid do you intend to ask. The former vice president come up and he city he would testify under oath. Would you be willing to testify under oath."

" Male and have to see what the circumstances are what kind of -- that we were setting. But certainly I wouldn't be out here today defied him feel comfortable. Talking. About what we're doing publicly I think it's I think it's very very important that we have a clear understanding that what happened here. Was it honorable. Approach to defending the nation that there was nothing. Devious or deceitful or dishonest or illegal about what was done."

" All right well we're gonna take a little break here and come back and talk about this. Some other things."

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" We're back again with a former vice president Dick Cheney mister vice president General Petraeus our top military man out not part of the world said this morning he is confident. That Pakistan's nuclear weapons are shipped to war. But Allan HQ this is do you -- these states have enough information about the location of those weapons and the security of those weapons. That we could take action should there be collapse of Pakistan's government or civil war broke out."

" Now I'm I would want to speculate on that Obama I think this. The key thing from my perspective would be if General Petraeus who is our. Our commander in -- that part of the world noise and as he does how important an issue is if he says they're on top of and I believe it."

" So so. How do you feel about what's happening in Pakistan right now though I mean the Pakistani government that continues to seem to have trouble sort of getting organized to fight the Taliban and sometimes you wonder they. If they take the threat of the Taliban is seriously. As we seem to take it in this country. You have faith that they can. Can beat the Taliban and their country."

" We had a problem I'd say. A year or so ago was one we worried about very much in the Bush Administration. That you had in Pakistan. Al-Qaeda. Would -- and had retreated they're from Afghanistan and you had the talent on coming back and forth across the border. And the feeling that the Pakistan any government. Understood that the al-Qaeda was a threat to US and that Colin on where threat to Afghanistan. But they didn't believe they were threatened. I think that it's gone now I think they understand full well that those radical islamists whatever their -- in northwestern Pakistan. Would love to see the government and in Islamabad toppled and I think they're committed to do that. That's a major step forward just to have the government in Pakistan understand that. They are as threatened if not more so then -- are the United States -- Afghanistan."

" What about. Afghanistan. President Karzai said recently that maybe we ought to stop some of the air attacks they're across the civilian. Casualties. Jim Jones the new National Security Adviser said today he did not perceive air attacks things stop there. Have set war going in your view what are we doing. That we should be doing and what are we doing or what."

" Is not happening that should be happening in your mouse I think. Then when we have to get our heads around the concept. That there's not likely to be a point anytime in the near future when you can say -- there it's all wrapped up when golf. Think that's wrong way to look at this conflict. Afghanistan is a very very difficult part of the world operated and from an economic standpoint it geographical standpoint it's it's. Very tough. Place to do business. What happened of course was that became AM a sanctuary for al-Qaeda and they used it to train terrorists to come the United States and kill Americans. We can't allow that to happen we can allowed to -- ourselves to go back to situation where. Afghanistan. That is. There operating. There's no US presence no foreign military presence until we're convinced that the Afghans themselves can control all their sovereign territory. When that day happens I think we'll be happy to leave that that's how I would define success. In Afghanistan is -- no longer constitutes a threat to the United States. I think go we have to be committed their for a long period of time I was glad to see present Obama commit additional troops to Afghanistan. I think we need to do whatever we have to do -- to be able to prevail. Air strikes an important part of an a lot of times that they air strikes you generate controversy. But oftentimes we found in the past that. These strikes are engineered by by the collar -- for example suggest in the most recent case is that they used grenades. To kill a lot of civilians. Not American bombs let me ask."

" About Guantanamo. President Obama said it's going to be closed within a year it's proved to be a little more complicated than perhaps as some in the administration thought it was going to be now you've got congress and wheels up for. About if these people are brought to a presence in this country. We've had their resolutions introduced up there on the hill that unless -- state legislature gives the go ahead. You can't put him into a prison anyplace. In in that particular state. But can we ask other countries to take these people back mister vice president if we're not willing to take them back in this --"

" Well we have asked other countries -- take him back and they refuse. Remember situation before we left office where we're trying to find a home for some weeks here's who we're generally believed not to be all that big -- threat. They ended up and Albania because Albania was the only country in the world would take it -- Do what's left that we've we've released hundreds already the less threatening text about 12% of them nonetheless went back into the fight this terrorist. Not a group that's left the 245. Or so. These are the worst of the worse this is the hard -- you have a recidivism rate out of this group of maybe fifty or 60%. They want to get out because -- want to kill more Americans. And they're the beauty is going to find it very difficult to send them any place. Now is -- say there's been some talk on the part of the administration about putting them in the United States. I think that's going to be a tough sell I don't know a single congressional district in this country it's analysts say -- great percent minus twenty al-Qaeda terrorists. If it's AM. If it's and graphic demonstration of why. Guantanamo is important we had to have a place of facility where we could capture these people and hold them. Until there were no longer into the United States. If you bring in the United States they acquire all kinds of legal rights and and a it's college Sheikh Mohammed said when we captured him he said I'll talk to you guys after I get to New York and see my lawyer. That's the kind of problem you're gonna have with the with these terrorists."

" Talk quickly about your party the Republican Party a lot of controversy Arlen Specter is -- he said there's no. No room for moderates in the party anymore you sent down last week. The party should not moderate but. What are you going to do. I mean you can purified the party to the pointed it's too small they ever get elected to anything. How do you broaden the appeal of your party and and yet do you think there's a place for mockery."

" Duchscherer I think there there is room for moderates in the Republican Party that's I think partly it's semantic problem -- I don't think the party ought to move. Dramatically to the left for example. In order to try to redefine its base we are what we are Republicans we have certain things we believe and and maintaining. Loyalty and commit to those principles is vital to our success. I think there are some good efforts out there Jeb Bush and those been working on -- candor. That Romney trying to find ways to appeal to a broader range of people aren't any problem that I think it's that's a good thing to do. But the suggestion our democratic friends always make it somehow. You know a few Republicans were just more like Democrat she went elections well I don't buy that I think when when elections. When we have good solid conservative principles to run upon a base -- policies on the principle."

" It's Colin Powell Rush Limbaugh said the other day that -- party -- be better off if Colin Powell left in just -- a Democrat that Colin Powell said Republicans had to be better off if they didn't have Rush Limbaugh speaking for. Where do you come down."

" Move ahead choose. -- in terms of being a Republican anger over the Rush Limbaugh thing thank. My take on it was Colin heard already left the party I didn't know it was still -- Republican. -- so you do you think that he is not a pop. -- it's not just noted he endorsed. Democratic candidate for president this time Barack Obama. I assumed that that some indication that this loyalty in his interest and Andy you said you'd check Rush Limbaugh for Colin power I would -- politically. The vice president you promised some news I think we're probably -- thank you sir."

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" Finally today so David suitor may be the -- it is stand most low key man ever to serve on the Supreme Court has made it official he is retiring. To return to the New Hampshire woods from whence he came -- county was a good justice thoughtful reasonable for shore he was a surprise to the man nominated in the first George Bush who thought he was -- her conservative. Only to discover he'd chosen a liberal but these things happen sometimes when people get jobs for life I had no problem with the justices -- legal work. But as one who has lived forty years in Washington I'll be honest I didn't care percent to. He made it no secret that he hated the city once describing his work is the best job in the world. In the worst city in the world another time the call like fear akin to an intellectual. Block. Our nation's capital. One of the most beautiful cities in the world called me corny. But I have to confess I've run into some pretty smart people here over the years but then again I've tried to get to know the city and its inhabitants. Who wouldn't if you were gonna live and place Justice Souter obviously. I've never known anyone whoever saw him outside the court and now he has to leave. I take it he won't miss Washington but I guess is Washington will hardly miss him. That's yet we'll see you next week right here office that."

" I lose. This."

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" This has been face the nation with CBS news chief Washington correspondent. Bob Schieffer. -- guest was former Vice President Dick -- nurses -- CBS radio network."